Chefs Norma Listman of Mexico's Masala y Maíz, a MICHELIN Bib Gourmand, and Lis Hernandez of Atlanta-area Arepa Mia, a MICHELIN Bib Gourmand, have not only redefined "good value" food with innovative techniques and bold flavors—they have also reshaped the narrative of an industry long dominated by men.
From building a community and solidarity to inspiring a new generation of chefs, the stories of these female trailblazers remind us that every aroma, every flavor, and every dish is a testament to their resilience and passion.
We recently chatted with them to learn about their culinary journeys and how they leave their mark on the world of gastronomy through perseverance and hard work.
What is the goal with your restaurant?
LH: Honestly, I just want people to fall in love with Venezuelan food. Whether they grew up eating arepas or are trying them for the first time, I want every bite to feel like home. I also care a lot about quality and sustainability, so I run the business in a way that respects both the ingredients and the people making the food.
NL: We started Masala y Maiz as a research project looking at the migration of cooking techniques, ingredients and political movements between South Asia, East Africa and Mexico. We want to use the restaurant as a political platform and activist project to push for better conditions in the restaurant industry and support critical social justice work in our communities.
How would you describe your approach to food and cooking?
LH: Since I love traveling and learning about different cuisines, I sometimes mix in ingredients that aren’t typically Venezuelan but make total sense flavor-wise. I think it’s fun to blend tradition with creativity, as long as the dish still feels authentic.
Simple, fresh, and full of flavor. I don’t believe in overcomplicating things—good food comes from good ingredients. I make everything from scratch because that’s how I was taught. I use traditional methods but also ensure the menu works for all kinds of eaters, whether they’re gluten-free, vegetarian, or just looking for a hearty, flavorful meal.
NL: We cook from our cultures with a lot of California technique. Our food is fresh and bright and our flavors are loud.
How did you conceive of a menu that is delicious, yet good value?
LH: It’s all about using simple ingredients in smart ways. Venezuelan food is naturally filling, so you don’t need a bunch of extra stuff—just quality proteins, fresh vegetables, and homemade sauces. I make sure every dish has bold flavors and good portions, so people leave satisfied. I also keep the menu focused, which helps manage costs without sacrificing quality.
NL: We intentionally work to keep the prices as accessible as possible. We prioritize building deep relationships with our farmers and producers to ensure that we are working in tandem with their growing, harvest and fishing seasons. We have a talented team that manages very tight margins to make it all possible.
How have you been able to maintain your standards with the cost of ingredients going up?
LH: It’s been a challenge, so I’ve had to get creative. I work with local suppliers, adjust the menu based on what’s available, and make sure we use everything efficiently to avoid waste. Since we make everything in-house, I can control quality and portions better. But yes, food costs are crazy right now, so we just do our best to keep prices fair without cutting corners.
NL: We absorb the cost. We know that prices are going up but our community doesn't necessarily have more money to spend. We use an open book financial management model so the whole team can review the restaurant finances together. By involving our team and maintaining financial transparency, we are better able to empower them to collectively uphold our rigorous standards.
What inspired you to become a chef?
LH: I didn’t wake up one day and decide to be a chef. It just happened because food has always been a part of my life. My mom cooked arepas for a living, and I was always by her side. Since I was 7 years old, she took me to the market every morning before school. We would pick the ingredients together, then go home and start cooking.
I learned just by watching her—how she selected the best produce, how she prepped everything, and how she moved around the kitchen. But while she was cooking, I was in charge of washing the dirty dishes (lucky me!). That’s how I started. First cleaning, then helping with prep, and eventually cooking on my own.
My love for traveling also influenced me a lot. I love discovering new flavors, seeing how different cultures cook, how they combine ingredients, and how they make the most of what’s available. That pushed me to pursue cooking professionally and to keep evolving my own style.
What are the most important lessons you’ve learned on your journey?
LH: 1. Work hard and stay humble. Nothing comes easy, and you have to put in the effort.
2. Stay true to your roots. Trends come and go, but authenticity is what keeps people coming back.
3. Learn the business side. Cooking is fun, but running a restaurant is a whole different challenge.
4. Take care of your team. The kitchen runs on teamwork, and you have to respect and support your people.
NL: You have to do things your way on your time. You can't wait for others to step up. If you want change you have to make it happen. It can be very lonely work so you have to build your community and build solidarity.
Have you faced challenges as a woman in the industry?
LH: Of course. Being a woman in the kitchen means you have to prove yourself twice as much. There were times when people didn’t take me seriously, but I learned to stand my ground and let my food do the talking. Things are changing, but there’s still work to do.
What advice would you give a young woman who wants to be a chef?
LH:
1. Don’t let anyone tell you what you can or can’t do. If you want it, go for it.
2. Be strong, but also take care of yourself. This industry is tough, and burnout is real.
3. Find a mentor, or be one for someone else. We need more women supporting each other in this profession.
4. Stay passionate! Cooking is hard work, but if you love it, it’s worth it.
NL: Find good mentors. Do things your way. Don't compromise your values and vision.
What is the dish to order?
Lis Hernandez: You have to try the Pabellón Arepa—it’s the dish that truly represents Venezuela. It has everything: slow-cooked shredded beef, sweet plantains, black beans, and fresh cheese, all packed inside a handmade arepa. It’s that perfect mix of sweet, savory, and comfort.
For me, it's more than just a dish—it’s a childhood memory. When it was my birthday, my mom would always make it for me. My favorite part was the fried sweet plantains—I loved the crispy, caramelized edges and the natural sweetness. It was like dessert and dinner at the same time! I would always save them for last because I wanted to end the meal with that perfect bite.
Norma Listman: The Camarones Pa'Pelar are a can't miss. We spent a long time researching the history of vanilla in Mexico. This dish decolonizes our understanding of vanilla and invites diners to engage with the importance of Mexican food history. The Camarones Pa'Pelar, with their wild vanilla & mortia chile ghee, have quickly become one of the most popular dishes at Masala y Maiz.
What price range can customers expect?
LH: It depends on what you order. Arepas are filling on their own, but if you pair them with an appetizer, you can expect to spend between $14 and $25. We have options for everyone. We also offer empanadas, which come in portions of two and are a full meal on their own. These range from $14 to $16. Additionally, we have a few entrée plates that are a bit more expensive but worth trying if you want something different. We also offer seasonal specials, which help keep prices reasonable.
NL: About $1200 MXN (around $60 USD) including wine and cocktails.
When is the best time to stop by?
LH: Lunchtime is always busy, but if you want a more relaxed experience, stop by between 2:30 PM and 4:30 PM. That’s the perfect window before the next rush.
NL: We are open from 12-6:00 PM and closed on Tuesdays. We recommend making reservations, but we always have space for walk-ins.
Hero image: Collage - Lisbet Hernandez / Arepa Mia & Molly DeCoudreaux / Norma Listman
